A Convo With Vito Peleg – Faster Client DesignFeedback

YouTube video
Faster Client Design Feedback

Transcript: Good evening, everybody. I hope you’re all doing well. If you could just let me know. If you can see me, you can hear me, you can do all the things that you used to do. And when we do a live stream, I’ve got cans on today and you’ll understand why in a moment, but just let me know in the comments. If you can actually hear everything that I’m saying.

So please do let me know in those comments. Okay. So good evening, Steve. How are we doing young, man? I hope you’re doing well. So we’re going to give it a minute or so before we get started and then we’ll crack on and introduce my conversation guest for tonight, which I’m sure you already know when you, cause you’ve seen the thumbnail that I put up, but I’ve been promoting it over the last couple of days. So I’m pretty sure you probably know who is going to be okay. So are you all doing well? Let me know in the comment section, just love to know that you’re all doing well. You’re safe and sound, and you’re looking forward to another Thursday evening where we have a little bit of a chat.

I say tonight, we’ve got a guest with us. We’re going to do the same kind of thing. I’m going to hand it over to Vito and he’s going to go through what he wants to cover today. Then we’re going to have a Q&A session. If you’ve got questions, as we go through, let me know. And I’ll pass those over as a, when we’re ready to, and we’ll have a full-on Q&A session at the end where you can ask whatever questions you want with regards to what we’re going to be covering.

So tonight I’m going to be talking to Vito Peleg. He’s prevalent in the WordPress space. He’s the brains behind what was formerly known as WP feedback. It’s there’ve been rebranded and we’ll go over that in a little bit. And this is a great tool that allows you to get almost instant feedback between you designing a website for a client or making updates and changes and so on.

And the client actually passes on that information. So you can action those very quickly, but I’m going to do a rubbish job of telling you all about it. Vito is going to do a much better job. So I’m just going to say hello to Vito tonight and good evening, sir. I hope you’re doing well. Greg, it’s exciting to be with you here.

It’s great to have you here. Sure. We’ll have plenty of questions for you tonight, but as always, we let the first few minutes go by. We have a little bit of. Just, say hello to everybody. It allows everybody to get into the live stream before we start talking about things.

So people don’t really miss what’s happening in the beginning. So I’m just going to say good evening to a couple of people that we used to see at our address and have the usual faces. So we’ve got Steve pro and it was good to see you. good to see you too, as well. Charlie Bird, always a pleasure to see you this evening.

So we’re going to be talking all about Vito’s main project, the rebranding, what it offers you, and how we can help you be much more effective when you’re working with your clients. So I’m going to hand you over now to veto. He’s going to introduce himself better than I will and give you a brief overview of exactly the tool that he’s actually promoting.

My name is veto and I’m the founder of that would be feedback. And now Kareem we’re doing a massive rebrand to fix some of the positioning kind of stuff that we add with WP feedback, which is a platform that was like self-explanatory from the name that allows people to gather feedback inside WordPress and like Paula like you were saying the idea is to overcome the challenges of back and forth with clients, loads of vague messages from either side or even worse than not just not doing it at all.

And that really worked well with the tool initially, and over the past 18 months, we just kept on building and kept on building that for the awesome traction that we managed to create early on. We’ve found that the. A deeper challenge that was causing the fact that why clients don’t really comply with what we need from them.

Why don’t they provide the content or the designs, or why would they reach out to us doing support? It’s two worlds and they expect us to see exactly what they can’t even picture in their minds that they’re talking about. And that’s where the platform evolved. And so as we were building things out and expanding it, what started as a standalone plugin?

Now it evolved into a full-on SAS solution with a complimentary plugin that integrates into the client’s website as simply the client. But a lot of the challenges that we’re all experiencing are freelancers and agencies actually come from the point of view that we’re all basically technicians.

I started myself as a freelancer. I started as a musician, same as Paul and I got into the game of design and building websites for some friends. And then for some small businesses. And from there, it grew to an agency of 12 guys here in London. And through that kind of through that growth, I was still a designer in my mindset and in my being, and I wasn’t really a project manager or I wasn’t really like a business owner, as you picture that I just wanted to do my craft and provide beautiful websites for my clients.

And that is where a lot of the struggles that, we’re all facing are coming from just the point. We are not project managers. We aren’t, we’re not in it for the admin. We’re not in it for the point of view of managing clients. We just want to get the job done and do it as best as we can. And then everything is what’s usually on fire within the business.

So I want to make sure that the food is our along with Paul, we’re just going to go through some of the principles of what creates an awesome project and what, or how I like to call it the perfect project framework. And we’ve actually talked to them over the past a year or so. When I was locked down in my office, I had the opportunity to talk to a few hundred agencies and talk.

How about we dive input? Yes. It all means a fantastic way to go about it. So do you want me to pass you over to your screen so you can give your presentation? Yeah. Yeah, it’s the screen here. Okie Dokie. So we should have, oh, bear with me a second. Let me just see, there we go. Now you should get right.

And I even had a couple of clients that got stuck for a couple of years through those bottlenecks. And then we’re going to identify through identifying the three-button next. We’re going to see the main challenges of delivering projects. And finally, we’re going to see how to drop 80% of the project delivery time, just from that realization and with the comp with our complimentary tool that allows us to systemize and automate a lot of the stuff that we’re doing.

As we’re getting started, let me ask you this. Let’s say that when you’re starting a client project and I’m talking about a pretty basic, a 10-page website, small business website, how long does it usually take you to build that website along with the client? From the time you get on the phone call with them, since you got that lead all the way to the website is live on the internet.

Let’s see bid on the comments to see what we’re getting here. How long does it take you to build a basic website? There’s the golden question. I think it’s one of those things that I speak for myself while other people are catching up with us. I’ve got that kind of way. I set things up, take it out, a tool like this is that once the contract is approved, then depending upon the project type, they go into a, I’m going to say a calendar block.

So other words I’ll know, an e-commerce site is two to four weeks or four to eight weeks, depending on the complexity. Like I fill my calendar up with those and I have a one-week block in between projects to allow me to do, ancillary stuff. So from my point of view, yeah, from my point of view, it’s one of those things that I know how much I block in for doing it.

If it takes that time is a different thing. I think this is something you, you do develop as time goes on. But if you have multiple projects on the go, or like you were saying, you’ve got multiple people and you could be outsourcing or freelancing, then that adds a whole level of complexity to it.

So I think anything that can really help that side of things is going to be a big advantage. Okay, let’s take a look. So we’ll just say it’s something between three days and three years sounds about, I do think you were a, I’m pointing this out to around three to four weeks or five to six, five to six weeks on some projects.

Let me see if we’re going to get some numbers, come on, share with the number. So share with us some numbers. So we’ll see. How long does it take you guys? We’ve got Laura saying it’s too variable for me. It all depends on the client’s needs a custom work that needs to be done. Okay. Good. Okay.

You have a timeline for each part of the project gladly work out like that. Steve is trying to systemize the process, but then the clients push back or the world pushes back. And yeah. And then we have scope groups coming into the game. But any, anything between a couple of weeks in a couple of years, it seems there for a simple blood website, we have 30 days here.

Okay. That’s great. And so now let me ask you this. If you were building that same simple website, eight to 10 pages provided that you have everything that you need, and you’re building this on your own. How long would that take you to build that same website without anyone? Just you and your computer?

There’s the golden question. How long will it take? You let’s ask that lets before you were doing this before you had, am I saying this right? Yeah. Before you had started using it, you started building that. How long would it take you? Let’s just say someone come along and said they wanted to have a 10-page business website, no. E-commerce anything like that. What would your typical timescale be? If that was you doing it yourself? As I was doing that, it usually took me between four to six weeks to get the project from start to finish. Of course, that’s provided that they actually did the work within the time span that was allocated.

But again, we had a client and I’ll never forget her that literally took more than a year to just deliver the about page. I am not talking about the rest of the website and that, that included weekly follow-ups and phone calls and at some loads of excuses, we didn’t want to hear it from her ever again, but it was still going.

I had one recently that I think he was two and a half years and ended up because of what happens with the current health situation. And we’re going to, I’m going to give it a, try myself now saying fine, hand it off. He didn’t get the content, but there’s a couple of things that I’ve done to take care of.

That side of things is in my car. It may be my approval when they actually sign up and they pay the deposit, they agree on two things. The deposit is valued for 12 months outside that tough. If you’ve lost it, obviously it’s my discretion. If something happened and you wanted to be fair about it, you go look, blah, blah, blah.

And the other thing is that if they don’t supply the con. Then the project just doesn’t go ahead. It’s as simple as that, no content, no project. And if you put into my pipeline and you’d done supply, what’s needed, you take it out of my pipeline, and then you will get slotted back in when you provide everything that’s needed and have space for you.

So that could be six months down the line in a busy period. It’s, you’ve got to take care of yourself like that because you do end up with some people that will just drag it on for eternity. And you’ve just like you can’t plan for that kind of thing. I agree.

And this is exactly what we did. We had a clause in the contract that if you’re not going to deliver the content in time, and then we’re just going to continue on with the build and deliver the website with lower MIPS homes all around, but then looking at it after, or especially with my experience over the past two years, working with so many agencies, I feel that it’s.

That it happened. And it felt like adding this clause to our contract felt like it was more about rolling that responsibility over to the client because when they start the project with us, they expect the project to get done. They don’t really know what it involves or what is what are the stages of delivering a website project?

Oh yeah. Definitely. Definitely. So let me share my screen here and I’ll see what I found. So when I was serving our users and just the community as a whole, we found that usually, most agencies would take between five to eight weeks to deliver a basic 10-page website. And that includes going through the different stages, freelancers, and agencies.

Some people skip the stages and they feel that it’s faster because of it. But actually, that’s what encourages scope creep. That’s what it creates a lot of frustrations from the client-side because they didn’t go through what I call the natural learning curve. Then a lie that a client needs to go through.

But the standard is between five to eight weeks. And then usually when it asks how long it’s going to take you on your own, usually one, one week we have a. we can see all kinds of similar responses here. And the crazy thing here is whether we’ve lost six full weeks of that project or not.

Nothing really happens those extra six weeks that were added to the project. I’ll usually time that there is no work. We’re just sitting there waiting for the client to comply. I don’t mean we’re not working at all because we’re probably doing other projects and other stuff, but for that particular project, there is no progress.

The client is just, procrastinating, we’re following up or not even worse. And all the, we send them off to get the content for weeks and weeks. And a lot of times that will happen too early on in the project. But eventually what happens is an 84% difference between the real-time of building a website.

And as soon as you involve one person along with you on that, Boom. It grew by five weeks on six weeks on average. Just crazy when you think about it just a bit here. So I’m going to escape who I am, cause we already talked about that. So let me share with you the perfect depth project, a workflow, and this is the perfect project framework.

And this is again, after talking to a thousand plus freelancers and agencies and their projects to see how they do it properly and identifying those kinds of problems within it. So I’d love to hear on the chat and maybe also from you, Paul, are you going through all of these stages when you’re delivering a project?

Everything bar, I would say wireframing prototyping. Yes. And we’ve had this discussion, I think in some of the live chats before, are some people like to use a tool like XD and some people just like to just jump in, if you’re using a tool like Elementor or DV or something like that, from my point of view, I’m quicker working with them.

Then I am with a program like XD. And then I think the added benefit of using a tool like that is the fact that then you can hand it off to your plant and they can physically interact with it in an environment they’re used to you’re in the browser kind of thing. So they get a better idea of that experience.

But I think apart from that, yes, I do all the other options inside, the sort of the workflow then as it were. Perfect. I agree with you, and I agree again with the concept of. People usually do this the wireframes and the prototyping stages inside tools like an XD or sketch, or before we used to do it in Photoshop and stuff like that.

But really nowadays in the page builders, It’s not really, it doesn’t make sense. It feels like you’re just creating more work for yourself. And even more than that, you’re usually confusing the client with sending them annotated it’s needed to annotate those images and that stuff.

And it just creates a bit of a mess. I 100% agree with you and we’ll see how to do that. Also inside the browser with that same methodology as you’re talking about here. Okay, cool. And just to go through this real quick, what we have here is starting from the proposal wants to propose to get signs.

We’ve got to get. Something, but usually it’s between 30 to 50%. And then after that, we’re going to go on and discover a session where it’s usually done over zoom or face to face or over the phone, or a lot of people do that through just like sending out a Google Form or a link on the website to a gravity form or something like that and where the client is expected to just give some details.

What is your brand about what are your main services and your main goals from this project? What are the goals for the next year? Who are your main competitors, maybe three websites that you like, that kind of stuff on the discovery session, just to give us but also for them that that clarity of what we’re going to be doing over the next six to eight weeks?

Yeah. And then usually also through this discovery process after this stage, I’m sure you would agree on Paul, after this is where the energy is at its highest, right? Everyone is super excited, super pumped about it. Oh my God, this is going to be amazing. Cause you just talk about possibilities and opportunities.

You’re not talking about restrictions in most cases in this case, everything is possible ideally. If got a bunch. Of course. Yeah. I just, I also had, I had a few people that, asking you for the next Facebook for 500 pounds, so you have to put things in perspective and this is a great place to do that as well, but because it will start off and because they made a financial investment right before that, usually they give you the benefit of the doubt at this stage.

And they trust you with those questions. Of course, as long as you’re asking the right questions and you’re going deep into their strategy and really to understand the business, not just to build the website, but to build the. All of their business is online. Exactly. Yeah. I think that’s the big part that maybe some people miss out on is the fact that, you are there to not just take what they say and then just build it.

I think like a web designer, in whatever capacity that is part of your job is to educate your client on what’s possible. What’s viable and interpret what they say. They want to, what they really need. Exactly. So I think that first stage, they, after, you know what you’re doing, your you’re you finding out what they want and everything that initial conversation meetings and so on.

They’re, probably the most important aspect of the entire project because you get it wrong from that point and then everything else can flow down. And I think that’s where a lot of confusion can potentially come in is not understanding and not conveying maybe what they should be looking for to what they think they want.

That’s very true because this is the place where, and this is where scope creep comes from because the client has a picture in their mind or they don’t have a picture, but they have a general, very general idea of what it should do allow it should work. But again, it’s our job to make sure that they don’t get distracted by my flashy bits.

I had a client that wanted just the diamonds all over the website that were flashing with multicolors and all of those kinds of stuff. So we find it’s not, I’m not going to do that, because we actually have a business to serve you. And it’s very important to help them realize that the website is really not for me.

And it’s not for them, it’s for their clients. And that we’re trying to create. That’s one of the hardest things for people to get their head around is that it’s not. It’s they think the concept is like I’m paying money for this. So I want it to be what I want. It’s yeah, but they come up with these crazy ideas and then you say to them and say when you go to a site that offers what you were looking to offer, would you do that?

Would you use that note? Never would. So why do you want it on yours? Why do you think that everybody else is going to be different? They go, oh, I never thought of that. It’s and that’s part of that discovery process is to temper expectations, to advise the right way, to get the results they want, and find out what they’re actually trying to achieve.

You don’t, if you don’t know that you C you can’t craft, there’s nothing worse than a client saying they want X, you build a website that satisfies X, and then they actually realized they wanted Y, but you’ve done all your work has been done the X route, and it’s not what they want they need or was even going to service their business in the way they expected it to.

I think that’s a difficult one. Especially novice designers, if you’re freelancing or you’re part of an agency and you are client-facing, that’s something that takes confidence to be able to tell a client, they look at the wrong thing. You go in with the wrong weight. This is what you really need to be doing.

And I think that’s probably where a lot of younger, either in age-wise, but as inexperience, designers may struggle to be able to confront a client. Then when they are wrong, when they come up with the wrong. I agree. And one of the reasons why this is happening is again, because, because usually when you’re starting off, you’re skipping stages.

So you do that call and it’s after the first five minutes okay. I understand what this guy needs, I’m going to build it, and then you just present something that you worked on, and then it’s what? That’s not really close to what they had in mind. So a lot of the additional stages that we’re seeing here basically most of the stages that are in here are designed to help the client get on the same page as us and go through that natural learning curve throughout the project, or even, even more, get them down this rabbit hole because building a website is a rabbit hole.

We’ve been doing this for years and we know that when we look at the web. We don’t just see that the website, we see the matrix, we see the color schemes, we see the call to action, the different sections, the Hilo sections, and the icons and how they’re laid out, what is the flow between the different pages?

So there are a lot of things to take in and usually when a client is being dropped into a complete website, they’re just like, they just get dressed, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. If I’m going to go back to him, I’m going to keep running through the architecture of the wireframe here. So again, the point of creating a site map is to get them to a point where they can see them, what we’re actually building, but from a.

So that we’re not there. We’re not adding a lot of complexity to the situation. We’re just mapping out everything, something that looks very similar to this to this slide right here so that they can really understand what we’re going to be building. And a lot of those scope groups are going to be discovered or, what would become a scope Quip are going to be discovered at this stage.

Like we actually want to have a booking form or we need that. We actually don’t need three products on the website. We actually have 300 products on the website, which completely changes the scope and the way that you would report the project. So the site map is very important. It’s a small step that it’s going to save us a lot of time, but it also has other benefits that we’ll see in a minute.

Then we’re going to dive into wireframes and prototypes. And again, the idea is to take the client one step deeper into that. Once they saw it just laid out as blocks. Now they can see the pages without the design stripped out so they can really understand the layout and the flows as well as a great opportunity for us to do one of the biggest challenges as showing the next slide.

After that, only after that, we can get started with the design and the development of the website, because we have the clarity that we need. The client has the clarity that they need. And we’re only going to build what we agreed on in the previous stages so that we don’t need a thousand revision rounds like sometimes happens when you skip those stages.

And of course, after that boom to the launch, even more, important than the project itself is getting them on a maintenance plan on a care plan to create that sustainability within our business. But a lot of people look at this as the bread and butter of the business paul that’s like the thing that pays the rent, the thing that pays the, for the internet to build at the end of the month licenses.

Exactly. Every business needs residual income. We need to have money coming in every single month. And like you say, maintenance plans, care plans, however, you want to brand them. All those things are to start off with. They don’t seem particularly important because when you’ve got five clients it’s like I say it’s covering some of the bills, but when you’ve got a hundred clients, that’s a completely different thing.

And I think that’s what you need to do is always have yours. In the future, not where you are now, not where you are in six months, where you’re going to be in three years, time in five years time, because those are things that if you put things in place now to work effectively, you can, then you’ll start to reap the rewards further on down the line.

When you put those things into the plan, I, 100% agree. I would even add to it that while this is a great way to create that recurring revenue. And even more than that. And when I first started, I didn’t want to do the maintenance. I just wanted to build the website, send the client off on his way, and move on to the next design project.

But it didn’t stop them from calling me. That’s the stuff that I wasn’t getting paid for. So might as well just get paid for it. And, but even more than that, that the care plan is our stepping stone for additional revenue from the same clients or upselling and keep expanding the website.

We know that a website only starts when the project ends, it doesn’t. Yep. We were talking about last week’s lockdown live. And one of the things that cause the whole concept of being locked down late last week was about building relationships, not websites. And I think that kind of plays in exactly with that.

If you, during the life cycle of building their site, whether this is a new client or existing client, or like you say, you’ve up-sold or site sold or whatever, when you have a relationship there, you, by having the maintenance plan by having these things, you stay in their minds. So when they’re looking for something that you offer, they’ll think immediately to come back to you, they will be thinking, oh, where do I get that from?

And they’ll go on Google and they’ll search for someone local to them. That’s right. You will be the first person they think of because they’ve already got a relationship that they’re comfortable with and they know you’re can provide. And maybe over-deliver which ultimately that’s what, we’d all like.

And that means that you don’t have to sell to that person anymore. It’s more difficult to find a new client than it is to upsell side, sell, cross-sell, or even just provide extra value to an existing client because they spread the word, they talk to other people it’s actually eight times how though to find a new client than to sell to an existing one.

And so imagine all the efforts that we’re doing on trying to go out and bring in leads, and going to discovery sessions calls with new creative proposals once the client is in and is on the care plan if they need additional landing pages or something happens in the industry.

When I first started, the big thing was all, you need a responsive website, right? Then it was, oh my God, you have to have an SSL on your way. And then after that, we have GDPR coming in. So every year there is this thing. Yeah, exactly. So every year that is something that you cannot really reach out to the client.

And I think that a great example is a dentist actually learning about this in school. How they tell us to go to come in for a checkup every three to six months or so suddenly full as it’s just so they can sell us the next thing on their list. So yeah, you did look fine, but by the way, I think that you should buy this electric to splash and now we just happen to sell it to you for 300 quid.

The only way out is to just grab that next time you’re coming in, okay, this is fine, but how about we go deeper with deep cleaning and whatever. And every time they extract a little more revenue out of the same clients, and that is the model that that is the right way to go about it when it comes to web design as well.

So now I’m going to dive into the main three buckets. And this is what gets the project stuck. And let me know in the chat if you think that that I missed anything in here, or if you think that these things are easy, I actually organize them based on severity. So the hardest thing to do is gather.

And then the second hardest thing to do is get the design approved. But when I’m saying the pool is not just, getting the plant to tell you that the logo needs to be bigger but also getting the proper feedback that you need to provide that solution. So not those one lines. But it gets them to a place where you’re getting the screenshots, the URL, all of the stuff that you would need to actually complete that each one of those requests on the first try, instead of changing the color three times throughout the website, as I did a few times before, just because I didn’t understand what the client was talking about because the client didn’t all have to explain what he did, what they were talking about.

And then finally, the last thing is ongoing support. There’s a really good reason why this is a challenge to really understand what the client wants at this stage is this because, and we know this from being business owners ourselves. When we have a project on our hands, we focus on this project. We allocate time for that project and we hope to get it done and then move on to the next project within our business or the next fire that is burning within the business.

So that’s exactly the mindset shift that happens. When the website gets launched, then even the best clients that usually send out detailed information about different requests and you haven’t really meaningful conversations with them, throughout the project, then it just becomes two worlds.

The button is broken, what is like a thousand buttons on the website. And then you start freaking out. The client starts to freak out and all of those kinds of stuff. So that’s why this is happening. It just happens because the client’s focus is no longer on you. It’s on someone else’s point someone else that is delivering another project or is hiring someone, always firing someone or someone is sick or whatever, so there are all kinds of other stuff that happened with the business.

As we know, as business owners, that when we don’t focus on a project, we need to deal with it. So that’s the third challenge that we have here now. I am also late. The usual time spans that these things take. So gathering the button, Paul, when do you ask for the content? But content is one of those things.

That’s the first thing I do. If I can give you the starting point of my project lifecycle, the first thing I’ll do is after you’ve had that kickoff meeting and you’ve discussed exactly what you want. The contract’s been signed, they’ve got the proposal. They say, know exactly what they’re getting.

They know what they’re paying for. Then I’ll give them a block of my time. So I will say from the 1st of March until the 31st of March or 30th of March, that will be your block of time for me to work on this project. One week prior to that start date, I have to have all of your content. If the content isn’t supplied by that week prior to it, the project doesn’t start.

And that’s the way I’ve done it before. Where you block time out if they come back and they go, ah, I didn’t have time. Can I send you to you next week? I said, yeah, you can send your next week, but your project now won’t go until the next available block. And when you T it might sound harsh, but I think when you’re a freelancer, you are the only person.

If you don’t do it in a way, something like that, it’s very easy that if you push it over for that client, you either compress the month that you said, at which point, you could end up not having enough time to do everything you need, or you, everything slips over. And for one week you could live with that.

And most clients could live with that. But if that’s one week there and then halfway through the project is another three days, and then the next client does the same kind of thing. But at the time you’re three or four clients in you’re a month behind. And you’ve then got to go to all those clients, explain to them why their project should have been launching today.

And actually, you haven’t even started it yet. You haven’t looked at it. So that’s what I’ve done is it’s if you don’t supply the content, you get shifted down the line to the next available slot gives you more time. But what is the kind of so between the time you tell them I need the content and w what is the time span between that?

And when the time slot begins at care, do they have two weeks, three weeks, they do that. Normally I was like generally tended to be booked three to four to five to six months in advance. So they’ve got plenty of time to do it. It’s not that I would say, okay, we’ve had the meeting today is Monday.

So by Friday, I want all the content of you. It would more likely be a case of it could be a couple of weeks, but more than likely a couple of months. So they’ve got plenty of time to, if they need any help or advice off me, they can come back and forth in between that time before their slot starts.

But as I say, then I know one week prior to that school, And it’s still finishing up someone else’s project. I know then if they’re not going to be able to fit into that block, at which point, sometimes you can move another client around that. Didn’t come back to you quick enough and you can slot them into that space that they should have filled and they’ve got pushed.

Do you know what I mean? It’s just like a bit of a jigsaw puzzle kind of thing, but because you’ve blocked out your calendar and you’ve put those stipulations that until you have everything you need to launch the site to, to build the site in place, the project doesn’t start. And that’s worked well for me over the last X number of years, but probably not the same for everybody.

It depends on how you configure and set things up in your business. So that’s a great way to do it with, and, being in a position where we’re booked months in advance and also being able to say to the client that United way. A couple of months. And when he first started that, I’m sure that a lot of agencies are the place where the gun comes in and they need the website.

So we want to stop when can we stop? And we start on Monday. No, that’s the kind of mindset that someone would have. I’m going to pay you today and we’re going to start on Monday. And you’re doing these tough conversations with the client. You could start working on the coffin on Monday, but we’re going to start in four months to build it.

What usually happens is that we dive into the project. So right after we have that proposal and they commissioned the project, then the agency is gonna try and get this done as soon as possible and use that momentum that that, that happens naturally from this a high, but they’re getting there on after the discovery session there that we talked about when it comes to a gathering continent, what we find is that usually what hap, what happens is that people will ask for the content at this stage like you’re saying, I’m not going to start the project until you get through the content, but then most people are going to be very easy about it and say, okay, so we have to start.

So we’re just going to start, and we’re just going to get through those stages. And then by the time you really get the content you’re here and you’re filling out the last bits of bits and pieces and like on the day of the launch. So that’s why I stretched this guy out from start to finish.

And usually, that’s the one that we’ll even go beyond, that we’ll go all the way to the other side of the screen and to my other screen here on the sidelight. then what I would propose and we’ll see exactly why this is happening is not to do it. And I’ll show you why right after this one and then a design approval is starting right?

When we have something to show them. So then we have the wireframes in the prototype, that will already, we start to approve some kind of a design where we have our first revision round of putting the layout and the structure of the site itself. But then we’re also going to do additional revision rounds to when we’re presenting the final design and doing some tweaks, just not the third one, shouldn’t be a big change.

It should just be like ironing out the kinks before we were launching the website itself. Cool. Paul, would you agree with this assessment? Everything we’ve seen this. Pretty much. Yeah. I think I think the longer you are in this industry, that the sooner you start to realize that nothing goes according to plan Ew.

You can set all the things that you want, but they very rarely go according to plan. Unless of course, you are a very strict and rigid individual. And I think that’s not, that’s a good breath. It can work for some people. Yeah. It can work for some people, but I think you have to be flexible to a certain extent, you can’t just go, yeah, that’s the way it is or go away.

I don’t know. Maybe it was in an enviable position where I could be six months in advance, booked up before people could fit into a time slot. And I very rarely had anybody that wouldn’t do that, but they also put into place that if someone wanted to be pushed up the timeline, then they paid more, they could pay an extra, but.

And they could then be pushed up because not all clients need the work to be done straight away. There are some clients it’s it’s going to take them six months to get the content because they’re working with a copywriter, maybe a designer to do the graphic work. The project is more than just you, but then you’ve also got other people that you are doing everything for that project.

And at which point, they might be a little bit more demanding and there are lots of variables. Nothing is set in stone. Every project is its own breathing beast. And yes, I agree that this is usually the case within the space. And I would argue that we have.

Proper systems in place. And like you have, for some of those things that allow you to create those the leeway for the clients and booking in the calendar, some things have to be rigid and very strict so that you can run a business because it’s not a gang, we’re trying to run a business here at the end of the day.

And okay, so now let me show my screen here. I’m just going to dive into platforms so we can see really what occurring. So I’m going to give you a sneak preview. And because we’re like I told Paul, I was hoping that by the time we’re doing this call and we’re already gonna be launching the new platform but as with projects, sometimes things take a little longer than expected.

So it was meant to go out this week, but it’s going to go out next week. But I can only show you where with where this is going with our staging environment. So we can see a bit of a sneak preview as to the new platform that will be launched next week, but we’re still going to be working from the existing one, which is not as bad at all.

And so what we have here is basically my inbox and the, just to give you a bit of understanding about WP feedback, and I tell him what does that mean? It’s divided into two parts of the product. There is the ADC dashboard, which is what you’re seeing. I have a list of all of my different websites or connected to this one kind of centralized area.

My goal is super simple. I just need to get everything to green so you can see this one is done. This one has 12 pending requests. This one has 115 because it’s a demo site that we’re going to use on this call. And this one has one to live client that needs sorting out. This one is to also live crab, did sorting out probably from today.

And this is the new website that we’re building. We’re using it ourselves with 10 requests in here, some staging sites, and so on. So this is basically our inbox and this is where I go in the morning and I check what bleeds doing right now. So now it’s dabbing this one with 115 different.

See what is going on here. So first of all, you can see that I have my inbox and as a, as opposed to how most people do it right now is using emails to collaborate with clients and to get all of the relationship going not just from the point of view of the design approval or not even just the content.

But email is is the most used platform for building websites nowadays. But it’s a 30-year-old tool that was never designed for visual collaboration. It was meant to replace physical letters essentially. And it’s just not the right tool for the job. So it’s like trying to screw in a screw.

And what we did is we created a variation of an inbox that allows people to, first of all, have all of their different requests, filtered based on the different websites and the different clients. And it’s designed for rapid prototyping and rapid kind of work as we’re going from one task to another and getting things done.

So we’re going to go into this one. We can see that we have just clicked around too much. Yeah. So we can see that we have a, we went into this demo site and we have an automated schedule that was taken for the client automatically without them needing to do anything. I already know that the screen size that they were on was this and the Basel version is this the username that created this is the demo site or.

And where exactly the request is. But also if I’m going to click on that, I can start delegating things to my team members. So for this one is for you.

So if I have a pin that is working with me and I can just do that and then notify the different team members, as opposed to what’s happening right now, you get a message from a client either by either via email or on the phone or text message or WhatsApp or Facebook, or, it’s a mess in most cases.

And then you take that request, you drop it into slack, and then someone on slack from the team is going to grab this task. Then you need to head over to Trello to drag the task to the right place and to list it properly. And then once it’s done by the team member that will let you know on slack so that you can move it on Trello and then text the client on the phone.

So everything is just. Automatically and like a lot of the time, our day looks like it’s, one of those Paul, you remember those ladies from the fifties where it’s like, they’re doing that all day long, right? Yep. Yes. The phone operators, right? Yeah. So that job was systemized and automated, like decades ago, by the idea, most of our day is still doing those different things all the time.

How do you correlate emails to those messages? And so I’ll show you exactly how these requests are coming in and when it comes to this request, With one of the upcoming versions, an in March, the version we’re releasing in March, where we’ll also include the emails in here, we’re checking every email address against the users on those websites that you have listed.

So if the client has a user with that email on the website, and it’s going into the desk automatically, it’s filtered into the relevant project so that you and them, which is a huge thing on its own so that they can have a track record of all of the stuff that you already completed. This way they don’t get overwhelmed with the stuff that needs doing.

They can see if I’m going to go to one of those live websites that I told you about. Yeah, with 341 requests that were made to a pending. So every time they make a request, it’s fine. If it’s waiting for a couple of days, because they know that we get things done, they can see 340 that will already done before that.

So it makes it a lot easier for the client to accept that the next request is also going to happen instead of being stressed and calling you and doing that and dah, they see it visually on their side and we’ll see it from their point of view in a minute, right now we’re exploring our point of view and our day.

And I also talked about going to Trello and dragging things around. So we get that kind of visual collaboration. Eh, so we’re going to take you to the board’s area where we can see and this is the clients that we were talking about right now. We’ve popped open the tasks straight away. And if we’re going to close this up, I can see the request that is sitting here.

We have two open tasks in there and we have 339 closed requests, things move automatically. So as you and the client move the request from one stage to another, it’s just going to give you that initial, like an immediate snapshot of every project that you’re working on. So let me go to the demo site. So we don’t show some customer data in here and you can see here I have 113 open tabs.

To tasks in progress. And as the agency owner, really, I don’t visit websites at all. All I do is I go here and I just drag things around and allocate them to the different team members. And this is my view of the different projects and the different eh, things that need to get done. Or I can click on tasks from all sides to see everything.

So my entire agency in one simple view over here and also if there’s too much, we start organizing things based on the urgency of them. So what is critical, we’re going to start from the critical and then move over to the low as we’re getting these two green again the goal is just that one goal.

Just get it to green. So who she told him interrupted is that who actually chooses the severity there between the low, the medium high end critical. Is that the client-side of things or is it something else? Some clients, we allow them to do it, and actually the tougher clients we allow them to do it.

And the reason for that is that this is not really a signal about the severity of the request. It’s a signal about their emotional state. If they feel that this is a critical thing to do, then they are freaked out. So that’s why we want to make sure that we know we empower them with a simple slider that tells them that gives them that kind of a visual slide to see how are you feeling about this request that you’re asking right now?

Okay. And yeah we do that. But for some clients or some project, or even within the website, you’ll see that you can even choose that the client will have that ability. The main contact, but then the other guys, which is the team members, the SEO guys, the calculator, the PPC guy, will not see this option at all.

Cause you don’t really care about the emotion, but you care about the climate. Eh and again, if I’m going to click through it, just going to pop this thing open and give me that request right away with that screenshot. Now, the cool thing is that if we’re going to go and find the task that is created on the website itself and yeah, let’s go to this one, right?

This one was created on the home. And I’m going to click on this and I can see that the request that was in the discussion was it was done on the phone and they want to change this piece of text. We’re going to click on this button. It’s going to take me directly to that website. Not only that it’s going to log me in along the way.

So you can see how I’m automatically logged in and pop it opened where the request is. So all of the time that we usually spend trying to find the problem, right? Those, these two worlds that say the button is broken, but there are a thousand buttons. Now not only did you get a screenshot and it’s properly marked on it when you click on it, but it’s also just going to take you directly to where it is, scroll down and pop that request where you need to get things done already logged in on the phone.

Then. Now, all there is left for me to do is just edit the page and change this text to whatever. And we can see some other kinds of examples here. Here’s the intersection, this is where you want to showcase the main style of the website. So this is just some kind of some instructions, and we can have a this should be, this should say this to change the content on this pile.

And let’s see probably we can have an images supplier in different places pieces of content all of this kind of stuff. Everything nicely organized changed this image to this. And again, when the image is uploaded, it goes directly to the media folder, as opposed to what happens now, when you’re requesting content from a client, they need to know that they need to go to usually Dropbox, right there.

Is that a tool that eh, that you also using port? Yeah, I use Dropbox primarily because it’s one of those things that people have free accounts on there, it works fine for most people. It’s not that complex to say. Yes. But they still need to. So not only that, but they need to go there and figure that out.

If they’re doing it for the first time, upload the files in there only for you to log into their downloads to your machine and then visit the different websites to upload the files into the media for them. So that’s gone. This is exactly this behavior that we’re, that we have within our industry, just because no one created the right flow.

But really when the request is coming from the client, when we get an image, why not? Boom they’re producers of. Yes, exactly. Just saving clicks one at a time, and I told you about the kind of a here that the client can see. So right now we’re on the client’s website and this is what you’re seeing here is what we call the client interface, plugin, and their training or their entire training from start to finish.

So again, if we’re taking this Dropbox example, you would ask them, okay, now for the content, you need to log into Dropbox or create an account on Dropbox, log into there, and drop the files in there that you’re going to be creating on the world and gathering them for images and so on it, or even worse spreadsheets that have H one’s age students, all those things, and then drop this into.

But that’s just the start of it. Then we’re going to have additional stages where we’re probably going to share we’re going to have, they have some either zoom calls where we’re going to show the screen and they’re going to be talking wasting your time, or, wasting everyone’s time, just doing all of that kind of a mess, eh, sitting on your shoulder when you’re changing stuff, or even over in worse, asking them to send us screenshots that they need to learn how to annotate. So you need to tell them, you need to download this Chrome extension and, no one does that and you never get what you need, or sometimes you would send them the image and they would look at it and say, okay, now what?

So you would tell them, yeah. Can you just create the word document to give me the notes that you want me to do? According to the design, based on the screenshot that I sent. So it’s insane. And usually the standard, the website. And requires between seven to 15 different tours that are introduced to the client within a span of those 5, 5, 6 weeks to just get the job done.

And again, if we’re looking at it from a different industry point of view, something that is pretty far from my reality, if my accountant would come to me and tell me, you need to log into eight to seven to 15 different tools within the first couple of weeks of our relationship, first, we’re going to use zero and then you need the spreadsheet.

And then I need you to go to send me an email, and then I need this one to be sent via post. So send this over the letter. And now can we have a phone call? And if you can please click here and book the, choose the time for this booking link and, seven to 15 different channels that I need to learn within such a short amount of time.

I would get pissed off. And that’s usually what happens with clients by the time the project ends. Everyone is just hyperventilating, right? Let’s get it done, so want to look at this anymore. Eh, our approach is different. The only thing that we need to train the client is with one sentence, please click the plus icon and choose anything on the website, deliver a request right there.

So if we’re going to share my screen here, I think the past icon chooses anything on the page, deliver a request. So this one and change that to this right? Another one here.

I choose this. And say, yeah, choose the spectrum. So even better, I see that I already chose this background, so we don’t have any duplicates, eh, of requests because I chose this before 14 days ago on a different demo and see that I already did the exact same example and I requested that the background would be changed to red.

So now let me just mark this one as complete cause this is pretty old and you can see, this is the interface that the client told us about their needs for the different elements. So for example, now this one is critical. And as I’m going to start working on this apartment, going to move this into and everything like that is triggering a notification so that you don’t need to do the email telling them now I’m working on it.

Now I’m done. Now, this is urgent. Now, this is that, all of those Micheal communications that are just dragging the day. It’s just a matter of. I mean that that is one of the things that is important, I think is if you’re using a tool like this, you do reduce the amount of pointless to an and fro in between you and a client.

You get, you can get a daily or weekly synopsis of what needs to be done on a client site, the feedback that’s coming back and forth, those little things do make it so much easier. And you also, I think it helps to make the relationship run a little bit smoother because when you’re talking on a phone or via email, it can get a little bit stressed at times.

If a project is not necessarily going the way you both like it to, it’s difficult to get that, to convey that over like in a conversation where a tool like this co takes out that personal aspect to a certain extent, it just says, okay, this is what I want. And this is where I wanted.

And it reduces that lost in communication or loss in translation, I should say. And we are still getting when they send every time we’d go on a phone call, it’s five minutes to start the conversation, five minutes to end the conversation. And basically, he just wanted that piece of information right there in the middle.

There was three seconds long. And or even with emails, all of this kind of just going in doing the subject clients the greetings, the background and all of that here, let’s just change this to this, change this, to that. There is a place for building relationships, which is exactly what you’re talking about.

And that is very important to get in touch with clients just periodically and make sure that they are happy with everything that is happening. But when we need to get things done, that’s what we need to do. Get the. But also, I think it’s, I’m going to say is if a client comes back to you and says Paul, I asked you to do this for me three weeks ago and you go, did you?

And they go, yes, I did. I go, but don’t think you did well, you’ve got are a running tally of everything that’s been requested when it was requested. Was it actioned? Was it completed if you go back and go through this and go, ah, crap? Yeah. They did ask me that six weeks ago, you can hold your hands up and go, I’m sorry.

It was my fault. I totally missed that. Whereas if they didn’t do it and you can go and go back so well, there’s a list of everything. So unless something went wrong in that process, you can see yourself. That’s not on the list of things you’ve requested me to do. So if you’re ready to do it, no problem.

But I think things like that can also help keep the relationship on track when it could easily do. Yes, because things will fall between the cracks when you’re dealing with emails and you get a request from this client and two from another one, and then going back to the first one, and then another one is on WhatsApp and another one is on Facebook and on Twitter.

So yeah, it’s inevitable that it’s going to happen. And this mess is not doing anyone, any favors, like you, want the clients to be in the same place so that they can have the clarity that they deserve when they’re going through a project or as well as through the support on the ongoing flow.

Exactly. Exactly. So there are lots of benefits to using tools like this. Eh, yes. So now when it comes to the onsite kind of feedback, and this is basically what we just said, But this is for us. This is the like I said, this is the client interface. And this is basically the mechanism of getting information from the client in the most efficient way.

For both sides, the screenshot was grabbed automatically. The area was marked automatically the messages short and snappy. You get status and urgency and the additional information that you need as well as tagging the whole thing. So for example, this one is a future task. I laugh. I love the future past that as a way of negating a scope clip.

There’s something that is not really funny. It’s just putting a future task tag on it, then you can actually build a stage two of the project or create an additional project of a Roundup of past. After that, we do this with all of our clients and a lot of the agencies that we’re running with.

That’s the way to upsell on, instead of just saying yes to everything, I can just drop this feature task thing here and move on to what matters now and right. We’re going to go back to this one. Talk a little bit about, do we have some more time polar? We how are we on the timing? I think we’ve got about 10 minutes if that’s good for me.

Yeah, that’s perfect. So I’m just going to go through some things around the daily workflow and working with teams because as I started to like our platform, oh, can you hear me? Yeah. Okay. When we started, what we add is just a standalone plugin, which is the, what now is just the client interface.

And then we started expanding this further and all the way to what we’re seeing that’s coming next week, which is what we’re seeing here. We’re not only that we’re giving our users the ability to collaborate with clients visually on the website. But also you can do that on images, eh, for logos or brochures that you’re doing.

Or if you do want to create a design in Photoshop or XD, at least you don’t need to retrain them. And on using yet another tool, everything is built-in into the own website. And the mentality is that the client needs to use their own website, eh, in order for them to get familiar with the value that the website can provide.

For their business. A lot of us take it, eh, think about it. Thinking about like a pair of shoes, like someone is paying for a pair of shoes and then you would call the box and whenever the client wants to see those questions, they asked to come to your office or in the shop, and then you just opened the box for them.

And yeah, you can look at them, but you can’t touch them. I don’t want you to. Because you are going to ruin them. So instead of actually enjoying the value and understanding what WordPress can really do for the business and showing you what a great that the clients that are actually using the website are the ones that are benefiting the most from it.

And the other ones that is spending the most on it, or investing the most in it, as opposed to the ones that just look at it as a flyer. Yeah. I think you have two kinds of clients. I think you have those that have a website because they think they need it. And then people that have a website because they see the value in it.

And I think those ones that see the value at it are the ones that they do focus on using their website, keeping it updated, making changes, doing all the things you’d expect them to do to maintain and actually create something that’s a resource, whether that’s an online sales resource or information resource or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it’s our responsibility to get them to that realization that the website is not a fly online. It is a marketing platform that can drive millions on millions of dollars of sales in sensing exactly. To take you back to one point you just mentioned the new version that’s coming out and you said you can use it to comment on graphics and things.

Can you also use it on PDFs? Eh, no. The PDFs are something that we’re going to be doing next, but for now, it’s JPEGs and PNGs on there, but we also have version tracking so you can upload new versions and it’s basically going to overlay the last one. So you can already see very visually the progress just by choosing the different versions and seeing like a match between them.

But also if I’m going to go back to this one, I wanted to point out the importance of. Benchmarking your agency, which I think is something that is very lacking in our business. And I’m seeing this as a super powerful new industry. And now as a SAS founder, I see this so much being emphasized.

Like the fact that you need to know your numbers, you need to know your KPIs and what you’re actually achieving every day with the team members, with the productivity that you’re doing. SaaS is all about efficiency. Then I would argue that age, that being an agency owner or freelancer is even more than that, because is the margins are so slim.

So being aware of the different KPIs, like how long does it take you to respond the first time? How long did this take you to complete the different tasks on average, who is spending, how long, how much time? Because we also have internal contracting for the different tasks in here. So you can see the different team members and what they’re doing.

Another awesome thing is our godlike, eh, section here that I like to call the God-like feature because it gives me as the agency owner an overview of exactly what every team member is doing at any given moment. So I can really look at this and no. If they’re working or not, a lot of times, you’re not really sure.

Especially with working with like our new outsourcing and working with eh, third-party kind of developers. So just being aware of everything that is happening within your business, who are the clients that are spending them all taking the most of your time? What we found is that 80% of the cards are like the classic Pareto or 80% of our time is spent on 20% of our clients.

But in most cases, that 20% of clients are paying the same amount as the other. That hour is the other 80% in terms of monthly care plans and stuff like that. So just be aware of who are the clients that are taking most of your day away from you. So you can actually charge accordingly and grow, according to that super useful as you grow in business and you have more and more clients coming on board, that’s the kind of information you need to be aware of, because like you say, it allows you to action to nurture those relationships because if you’ve got a client that pays you well, they pay over the lifespan.

Let’s just say two to three years, they’ve spent. 50% more than your average client. That’s the relationship you want to keep nurturing? Because generally, you’re the ideal client is one that you don’t hear from that often, but pays you every time you want something. And they’ve always got a new project for you, but they don’t, they’re not looking over your shoulder.

We’d all love clients like that. But when you can identify those out of your client base, at least it means you can make informed decisions on how you’d nurture and grow that relationship. And maybe don’t spend quite so much time on the ones that are time-suck, but don’t pay you. Cause there was a time suck.

Most of the time are the ones that give you the least amount of money. Usually, you know that exactly. And this is what always happens. And I had to learn his style the way we had a client without noticing because the team was just saying yes to everything that you requested. I ended up being 25,000 pounds in the whole of wasted time over months, just because I was focused on getting more, getting.

Eh, work in the Dole. And while the team was just doing everything that she wanted, like that it was worth like full-on salaries every single month without. Yeah. And I can say that knowing that you can’t do anything about it, you can’t address it. But when you’ve got the statistics in front of you, you can make a much more informed decision on how, sometimes you’ve got clients like that they’re not worth having, so they’re the kind of ones you can identify it.

And then you can say about what we need to cut the ties with this claim because financially they’re costing us more than they’re making us. Yeah. And a lot of times just creates a strain on our mental health. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I made a video about this probably about a year ago, a client that I last went to a competitor and it was the best thing they ever did because I pressed the wrong button because basically.

Forget the money that they were paying me, the money really did not outweigh the stress that they brought with them and it just wasn’t worth it. So I was glad, and life has been bad too, since, so I had a few guys like that as well. This is always a very freeing experience. It’s scary to do, but after you do it, it’s like, how did I do it sooner?

But again, I think that’s the thing that comes with confidence. When you do this for a lot longer, you do build confidence and you feel better than you can tell those clients, this relationship isn’t working in whatever way, and then you can pass them on, in a polite way, or find more creative ways to no longer work.

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Eh, yeah, that’s pretty much. So we’re going to go through the plat plus all kinds of other stuff, like time tracking and team tracking, and to make sure that eh, we’re basically managing a freelance or business or an agency in the right way. So it starts with that those client relationships, but it also goes into the team relationships and it goes to your profitability as an agency, as you’re growing, which is always a challenge with digital agencies to maintain a profit at the end of the day, if you’re not keeping tabs on things.

So yeah, so then the new platform rim is no longer just that WP feedback tool. It’s a full-on agency management plan. I would like to say that instead of being a project management system, it is the project manager. So as opposed to a sauna or stuff like that, where you’re getting like a clean slate and you do know what you’re doing to actually create the systems, this is like an agency in a box.

You can’t go in and drop it into the clients and the whole thing just works for you. Okay. Excellent. That was great. All right, let’s take a couple of little questions. I know there’s been a couple of, popped up as you go along, and then we’ll say thank you very much for a wonderful presentation tonight.

Laura, she’s asking, do you find it difficult to get clients to sign up to another piece of software to actually get them in, into using your system? I agree. It’s very hard to get clients to use a different piece of software. That’s why they don’t need to. And this is one of the crazy things that we do as an industry, we try to get them to log into base camp or to log into InVision, or to log in to Dropbox.

But here they’re going into their own way. Not only that they don’t even need to log in to do the build. We have what we call guest mode so that they just need to visit the website and its works. What sort of stuff. Awesome. Okay. So this is a part question to do with the platform kind of part question.

Do we, what we were talking about earlier on saying what if you have a good-paying client, nice person, but just not capable of creating and providing the content. Do you lengthen the project charge more or do it for them with their input? How would you approach something like that? So I would say that’s it.

It doesn’t make sense that a client, that a business owner can’t create the content for their own website. The reason why I’m saying that is because every business owner loves to talk about their business. It’s their passion. It’s what they do. And if you would sit next to them at the dinner party, they would probably eat your head off.

Just look at me, I’ve been talking about it for an hour, nonstop. what we want to do is just create that same scenario of empowering them in a way that makes sense. The reason why clients don’t provide content is not that they can’t not because they don’t want to it’s because they don’t know how to.

And what we’re doing is we’re just laying out all of the lovely MIPS zooms, and I’ll just show my screen one second with this. I have flaming templates that we’re providing to all of our users. And go here. So we have a full every page with the elemental DV, Gutenberg beaver builder, there are a few others out there that we are, we’re providing one for each.

So you’re getting a template that all you need to do is basically the elite, the sections that you don’t want. And this is basically an end result of a homepage that I created within four to five minutes. Okay. I’ll show you the main one, how it looks for learning on the template, right? What you’re getting is this, and there’s like a seven-minute video that shows you how to do, how to use that properly.

But this is a great way, to create the layout and to collect the content instantly. So you see, we have what we did is we created the long scrollable section is a page that has three to five of each one of the standard sections that you would find on a modern website. So for example, we have the headers five.

It was sectioned and so on. And all you do is just delete the ones that you don’t want. And you end up with a page that is designed to have no design. So it gives the client the ability to focus on what we need from them at this point, which is just go around and provide the content on each one of the places that you see, the reasonable content, or even more than that if we need a little more information for them, we tell them this would be, this is for your, about us section.

We’ll give them some one-liners to go about it. And yeah. So instead of thinking a client can’t do it, it’s not true. Every business owner can talk about the business or you just need to empower them in a way that allows them to do it. Yeah. I think also part of the initial meeting is to. Lay expectations to discuss.

If they’ve got any points they’re not comfortable with, if copywriting or creating the content is something they’re not good at. I think that’s a good time to start addressing it. So you set the, you saw the seeds that, look, if you don’t want to do this, or you’re not comfortable doing it if you can provide at least a bare-bones outline of what it is you want to promote via your website, then you know, either they or you or through recommendation, you could look at working with a copywriter that you would trust.

At some point, the client has to have key input. Otherwise, the site isn’t going to work because the only person that knows their business really well is the business owner. As I would say, that we can take onboard loads of information, but we’ll never know their business that because we don’t live their business.

Same as if they came to us and said okay, I’m going to tell you about your business. You’d be like, go knock yourself out. You’d probably, you’re not going to get anywhere near what it’s really about. So maybe a part of that initial meeting is. Lay expectations, find out areas that a client is not comfortable with and help address those to ease their fears and maybe help them make the whole process just a little bit smoother running.

Yeah. And this is exactly like this with it comes from the education of this, because as you’re saying, no one will know better than the business owner themselves and what we found is that if you know how to, you want. ’cause it’s your website, it’s your project. Then you’re going to, you’re going to be able to do this also, for small business owners, eh, which is a, I think it’s a shame, but copywriting is, or creating copy for websites.

Seems like an investment that they don’t want to make it doesn’t, they don’t see the value in it. At least therefore the earliest stages in their business. Until you get to a place where you bring in consultants to talk about the headline, right? And but early on, they don’t see the value in creating in hiring and outsourcing that additional role paying extra for a copywriter.

So you gotta go through the motion of training them this and again the. Is that in most cases, what our industry does is that it sends them into a blank Google doc and tells them right. And that’s where they get lost. That’s what it is, what falls into them. But if you really see a visual representation and context, which is the main thing that misses that is missing from the content gathering process is a context, like you don’t know what you’re really doing were, so you’re getting like one line is where you need the full paragraph.

So you’re getting, you have those three icons and, everyone has three words, but because they can see it, they will provide like two paragraphs for each sentence. X is three words that need to be in their calls to action can be super long. If they can see that it’s a button. So it just, we’re building something visual.

A website is no more than a visual representation of the business online. So why are we trying to say? The entire visual aspect of it in most cases completely. And, it’s got to a point where you don’t show the websites to the client until it’s ready in a lot of cases where you’re going through a visual process of creating this.

So the more you can show, the more it’s going to put you and the client on the same page. Exactly. Exactly. So we got a question here from Bradbury who missed the start of their sin. So one of the technicalities you mentioned, how do you integrate this with a site? Is it a plug-in sit on the server? Is it WordPress or.

You just drop it into a website and it’s them right now. It’s WordPress only, but soon it’s going to be a script as well that you can install on every website. The fact that we have a plugin, and this is one of the unique stuff about this thing because we started as a plugin, it happened to become a unique thing because of just the progression of things.

But because we integrate them into the database, we have the ability to do stuff that is magical for your day. Like the login that takes you directly to where the request is. So this means that you never need to share logins with any freelancers or any kind of con subcontractors that you’re working with team members.

No one needs to remember passwords ever again. They just log in as an agency owner as a team member of the agency or the freelancer, they go into that dashboard, the registry dashboard. And from there, they have access to only the websites that they should. And go in there, one-click to push things into the media folder.

Then again, save so much insane hassle of taking things out and taking them into Photoshop, save for web on, or go to tiny PNG. Then, when you go to tiny, drop it in there, download it to your computer, then you go to the website. So instead we’re just optimizing the images on our site, in the same mechanism, like you would find on smooshing or tiny PNG or something like that, which means that the client sends the image.

You click a button, boom, it’s in the media for the done. You don’t really compress it on the way up as well. So can you can configure the compression ratio and does it resize or is it just compression? It’s just complacency. But WordPress will resize it automatically. Ah, excellent.

Excellent. Okay. So we’re going to one more comment than a question, I think, which is from spending a think a later prototype. A lot of Epsom-based modules are a great way to help the client create content and visualize the concept. What are your thoughts on that? I agree 100% that the, and this goes back to the, to that point that we’re building a visual thing.

Website is a visual thing. So it’s like a, you can talk about imagine a musician that’s trying to describe a song in so many worlds to someone that never heard music in their life, yeah. That’s exactly right. Try to explain a song that yeah. Would even know where to begin.

So Laura really appreciates both of your guys taking the time to go through the software this today. And I appreciate Vito taking the time to join me. It seems to solve a lot of issues that I have as a freelancer, as a company I work with. Yeah, that’s the whole point I think behind this is. Ease those pain points as designers, as developers, as whatever we want to call ourselves.

We, we live through every single day and a tool like this is ultimately there to ease those pain points and reduce the amount of tooling and from we’ve got to do on a daily basis. Yes. And there’s more than we’ve been around for 18 months now more than 5,000 freelancers and agencies are already on board.

We’ve installed on tens of thousands of websites, just in 2020, we helped complete 108,000 tasks, which is the equivalent of saving the industry five years over in 2020. And we’re not going to stop with just, we’re just getting started. That sounds excellent. So where can people find out a little bit more now that you’re rebranding?

And like you say, that’s going to be coming out hopefully next week, but where can they find out about you right now and where can they find out about you when that actually launched. I’ll just give the new you Aleta cause it has a bucket to take to the current website until we launch next week, which is atarim.io

Excellent. I’ll put all the links in the description. If I haven’t already, I’m pretty sure that I did, but I’ll put those in the description of the video. So people want to check it out and find out more they can do so a video. I just want to say thank you very much for joining me this evening.

It’s been an absolute pleasure to talk to you and to have you present to all those interested people that have been in there tonight. So thank you very much and thank you to everybody that’s been involved tonight. I will see you next Thursday and Vito have a fantastic evening and the same to everybody else.

So thank you very much for joining us and I should see you very soon.

Start Collaborating On ANY Website in Seconds

Simply add a URL in the field and see the magic happen (Any URL)

Free Forever | No Credit Card Required

What is Atarim?

We help digital agencies speed up their clients projects delivery with the most advanced website collaboration system on the planet.

The Client Interface

Where you, your colleagues and your clients can collaborate visually to reduce back and forth and confusion to zero.

The Agency Dashboard

The main hub of communications for your operations. This includes a built in support desk, all the requests from the different projects you're working on and a bunch of automation tools to help you speed up the work.

Our Agencies Serve Some of The Biggest Brands in the World

From small businesses to the biggest brands in the world, our agencies and freelancers are making an impact with more than 120,000 of their clients.

Why 5,000+ Web Agencies Trust Delivering Their Work With Atarim.io

Start Collaborating On ANY Website in Seconds

Simply add a URL in the field and see the magic happen (Any URL)
Free Forever | No Credit Card Required

Save Weeks & Months on Every Single Project.

We’ve analyzed the time saved on more than 120,000 projects that have gone through our system. We found that the average saving is 2 hours per day, per team member(!)

This means more than 2 months per year per team member gained by implementing Atarim.

This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.